Retail For The Rest Of Us: A Podcast For Indie Retailers Who Want To Make Sales, Build Community and Grow Their Shops
Retail For The Rest Of Us: A Podcast For Indie Retailers Who Want To Make Sales, Build Community and Grow Their Shops
Fast Growth & Personal Fulfillment With Erin Myles Of Brave Daughters
Meet Erin Myles, founder of Brave Daughters - an intentional jewelry brand. Erin and Brave Daughters have experienced some major growth over the past few years, going from a pop-up model to multiple retail locations, a website overhaul and the expansion of their line. We talk a lot about what that has looked and felt like, as both a business owner and human being.
Our chat covers:
- The importance of operations as you expand - and why you need to zhuzh your processes over time
- Crafting an in-person experience centered around your brand values
- Flowing instead of forcing when it comes to growth
- Why deriving your fulfillment from your business may not be *~ the vibe ~*
In 2018, founder Erin Myles had a vision to do things differently. After many years of corporate grind she left her job in the fashion jewelry industry and set out to reconnect with her values of jewelry as a reminder of personal power, conscious consumerism and sustainable production practices.
Brave Daughters was born with those values in mind, and the mission to create jewelry that tells a story: a celebration, milestone, breakthrough, accomplishment, or a reminder.
Erin describes a ‘Brave Daughter’ as anyone who is following their own path, investing in their personal magic and following their heart.
Since then, Brave Daughters has expanded to Providence and Boston, and offers Forever Jewelry: custom-fit, welded, permanent chains + charms, along with a collection of unique Whenever Jewelry (with clasps) and special occasion custom-made items. They are a women-owned and operated business and carefully source every chain, charm and gemstone and sustainable material used in our jewelry.
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[0:04] Welcome to Retail for the Rest of Us, a podcast for indie retailers, makers, and shop owners who want to do business differently.
I'm your host, Janine Malone, retail expert, small business cheerleader, and the founder of Feel Good Retail.
On this show, you'll hear insights, strategies, and ideas on how to sustain and scale your shop without sacrificing your sanity.
Each week you'll hear from me and the occasional guest expert in what I hope feels more like voice note from your retail BFF than a business podcast. Additional goodies and support can be, found in our show notes and at feelgoodretail.com. Now, let's get into the show.
[0:40] Music.
[0:49] Welcome back to Retail for the Rest of Us. I'm your host, Janine Malone, and today I am talking to Aaron Miles, the founder of Brave Daughters. This conversation went in directions I wasn't expecting in the best possible way. I really wanted to talk to Aaron because Brave Daughters has seen pretty unbelievable growth over the past couple of years going from a business that was primarily doing pop-ups and studio appointments in Providence to now having multiple locations, a custom jewelry business, a robust e-commerce site, and is even working on a permanent location here in Boston. So initially, I really wanted to talk to Erin about what that ride has felt like, how the pace has felt, what it's looked like to start delegating and rapidly expanding your team, especially because her business, as you'll hear, is so centered around really intimate customer experience. Brave Daughters primarily focuses on something called Forever Jewelry, which is claspless welded on pieces like necklaces, rings, bracelets, etc. So you got to be comfortable with people. You have to make sure that your sales staff is really making the customer feel at ease.
[2:04] And educated about what they're getting. Of course, we get into this in our conversation.
But what really surprised me is that Aaron and I pretty organically got a little bit more philosophical than I was expecting. We were talking a lot about what it means personally to run a business and how to create systems so that your life as a founder or a retailer or a boss doesn't become your entire identity. I don't know that we came to a conclusion other than I think I left the conversation feeling very seen by Aaron's transparency around that, and I hope you do too.
[2:42] So through our conversation, we talk about the importance of operations as you expand, and why you need to judge your processes over time, about crafting an in-person experience centered around your brand values, flowing instead of forcing when it comes to growth, and why deriving your fulfillment from your business might not be the vibe. It was far reaching. And I really am so grateful to Aaron for taking the time to chat with me and for being so transparent, and not only talking about what growth inside the business has felt like, but what it's felt like for her as a person, as a human being running her amazing business.
So without further ado, here's my conversation with Erin.
[3:25] Music.
[3:31] In 2018, founder Erin Miles had a vision to do things differently. After many years of corporate grind, she left her job in the fashion jewelry industry and set out to reconnect with her values of jewelry as a reminder of personal power, conscious consumerism, and sustainable production practices. Brave Daughters was born with those values in mind and the mission to create jewelry that tells a story, a celebration, milestone, breakthrough, accomplishment, or reminder. Erin describes a Brave Daughter as anyone who is following their own path, investing in their personal magic, and following their heart. Since then, Brave Daughters has expanded to both Providence and Boston and offers forever jewelry, custom fit, welded, permanent chains and charms, along with a collection of unique whenever jewelry that, has clasps and special occasion custom made items. They are a woman owned and operated business and carefully source every chain, charm, gemstone and sustainable material used in their jewelry.
Hi, Erin. Thanks so much for joining me. Hi, Janine. Thank you so much for asking me to be here. I'm so honored.
Oh my god, we'll see. We'll see how honored you feel.
No, I'm just kidding. Well, I figured I like to start at the start.
So can you tell me about the early days of Brave Daughters and sort of like what inspired you to start the business and what it looked like?
[4:50] I had left my... I was a designer in the costume jewelry manufacturing industry for many, many a year.
A year. That was what I started. I went to college for metalsmithing and then fresh out of college, I started doing costume jewelry. I did that maybe for like...
[5:07] 18 years, 16, 17, 18 years. It's kind of a blur. And I left because I just didn't like the...
[5:17] I would lump it into the fashion industry category, which I think everybody kind of knows the reputation that the fashion industry has for burning through people.
And then the jewelry that I was making was essentially stuff that was going to get thrown thrown in the garbage, which I didn't really feel so good about, seeing the level of...
The volume of product that's getting made for a Western market is like bananas, and most of it doesn't even make it to a store. It gets thrown in the trash. And then the stuff that does make it to a store gets thrown in the trash because it's poor quality.
So I felt bad about that. And I wanted to bring meaning and connection back into what I believe jewelry to be is like, you know, an object for storytelling and meaning making and connection and all of those like special things. That's what makes jewelry special.
So I wanted to do something that checked all those boxes.
Yeah. Amazing. So did the business start with permanent jewelry?
[6:20] It was a studio. So, the studio space started for my other brand that I was doing called Wanderluxe, which was like home decor that I was hand-making out of fiber and wood. And then started doing workshops out of the studio as a way to connect with people over shared interests like tarot and art making and things like that. Then we started doing permanent jewelry as, like.
[6:56] A fun idea along with that, because we were doing jewelry workshops, permanent jewelry kind of just, took over the show, like gradually over the course of, I would say, after two years.
[7:11] Workshops were just like, there just wasn't time. Actually, that's not true. COVID sorted out the the workshops because we were doing... COVID ultimately was the workshop killer, obviously.
But we were closed down really only for two months during COVID and then reopened private appointments for permanent jewelry. And the workshops just never made it back because we moved out of our big studio that had workshop space into a tiny private office that was just for permanent jewelry. We downsized during COVID basically.
Got it. Yeah, that makes sense. So like, I mean, but it sounds like even before the COVID of it all, like there was, it was clear that like of the things that you were doing, like the permanent jewelry was like really speaking. Yeah, people are really, yeah, people were really into it. It kind of took over just in terms of the amount of time that it required.
We were in a private studio for a couple years and started doing permanent jewelry out of the studio and doing like pop-ups and private events.
And then COVID happened, kind of like shut the whole thing down for a couple months.
[8:26] At which time we were able to pivot pretty quickly into like a smaller space because you know, nobody knew what was going to happen.
So we got a small office space, just doing permanent jewelry out of that space.
And then that like almost immediately picked right back up where we were getting like fully.
[8:45] Booked with appointments at the private space.
So then it was like, okay, we were there for a year and then moved into the retail space that we have in Providence now in November of 21.
[8:58] Amazing. And then in May of 22, the current approached us about doing a pop-up in Seaport, which we said yes to. And so we've basically been there now since May of 20 for a full year now.
Yeah. Working on the permanent space. Oh, okay.
That's one of my questions for down the line is like, what's next?
So we jumped ahead, but sorry, no, I'm like breaking news. That's very exciting.
It was like a side hustle for like a very, like I was freelancing, working on my wall hangings, Wanderlux. I had an Airbnb that I was using for some like passive income, passivish income.
I was doing some freelance interior design gigs and all of that pretty much went, away. I would say like in early 2021 and it just became just focusing on Brave Daughters.
I think that's really helpful to share. alike.
[9:55] What the transition also looks like to full-time because one of the things that's kind of coming up as like, Not necessarily a theme of these interviews. I've been doing but something I've been thinking about a lot, too so maybe I'm bringing it out is like this like, glamorization of Entrepreneurship and that like oh, it looks like it should be really easy and like, you know You just like come up with a good product and you just post on Instagram and sell it and like that's not a new phenomenon phenomenon by any means, but I think it's really helpful to hear that, like, it did, take some time and it also took some experimentation in the beginning, you know?
Like, you didn't quit your industry job and be like, I'm going to start permanent jewelry.
It's like, it sort of kind of, like, naturally evolved.
I'm always, like, very intrigued and, like, confused by, like, people who just do this, like pull this trigger on a concept and decide that then like, you know, and then they're taking, like they're doing rounds of investor funding and like stuff. And it's like, I need to see something work and I need to get comfortable in it.
And I need to do like, be sure that I'm doing a good job. And like, and that you like it. And then I like it. That confuses me.
And the other thing that I find very confusing is like that.
[11:20] Owning a business is supposed to be this self-energizing, intrinsically fulfilling thing that fuels my whole life. That's not my experience at all. I want to integrate it in with all of the other goals that I have for my life and have a holistic...
[11:43] The way that people talk about business ownership sometimes just feels very unrealistic to me.
That you just have this, like, do you know what I'm talking about?
Where people are like, where people are like, well, you know, like, this is like, it's my life's purpose. And it's like, well, it's a piece of it.
It's not like my church or anything. You know what I mean? It doesn't, I don't go to church, but like, it's not like this thing that like, I feel like you have to create that on your own outside of your business.
And you can, you can, you know, pepper it into like everything that you do, but it doesn't just bring with it all of these fulfilling and energizing properties on its own, if that makes sense. No, it definitely makes sense. It really resonates with me because it's something that I definitely... It just feels like a trap to tell people that you can love what you do for sure and you can like build your business in a way that really shows like your values and what you care about and like do it in a way that feels really good to you and that feels like it's challenging like norms and things like that.
But I mean, I don't think.
[12:59] You know, like, it just makes me think of James Baldwin, like, I don't dream of labor.
Like, I just, like, I really didn't, I want my business to be, like, really meaningful, but at the end of the day, like, if it came down to, like, my business or, like, my marriage or my business or my friends, like, the thing that I derive, like, actual identity and meaning out of is, like, always going to be in my personal life. But it's, you're totally right. Because, because it's something I'm actively trying to unlearn right now, is that I'm even just going through this practice of journaling, and even in therapy, I just talk about work.
That's all I talk about in therapy. That's what we go over every week.
I'm like, here I am again.
Yeah. That makes me feel good because it's like, okay, sometimes I'm like, this is truly crazy, but I don't know, I haven't even, I feel like I haven't even explored like my personal identity in years because I've just been trying to derive it from my business.
I think when you do that, you rob yourself of something and you also rob your business of something cause you're like strangling it.
Yeah. It's supposed to be everything to me. It's like, it's a lot of pressure on this thing.
Yeah.
[14:20] It's been really hard for me to like unlearn those things. I don't think I'm not done. I'm not done on learning. I feel like I'm at the stage where I'm aware of it and I think it's not fit for me. I don't think of my business in that way.
And I see the narratives and it makes me think like, wow, I don't agree with that.
But I definitely haven't.
Gotten comfortable in operating outside of the expectation yet. So it's like this weird space where I'm constantly struggling with what I want for myself and my life in order to feel fulfilled and then what everybody's kind of saying should be everybody. The narrative is like, I had a.
[15:09] Meeting with my accountant last week to just talk about ideas. And I was like, I have a lot of personal goals that I would like help deciding how to finance and navigate that I want to work on in tandem with while working on my business. I don't want to be just work... And he basically was like, well, you should... I would be not doing that. And I would be focusing 100% on my business for at least like the next two years. And I was like, well, I don't want to. So how are you going to help me figure out like, I don't, that doesn't sound fun to me. Yeah. Like I don't want to do that. So let's talk about what I just said and how you're going to help me figure out how to do, you know, like, I just like, I, I don't live to work. I I don't want to live to work.
That's so, I mean, yeah. That really resonates. And I think that like, it will resonate for a lot of people listening too. because I do think, especially like...
As a small business owner. It's just like, we're supposed to be so grateful for every single sale.
I mean, again, my worst days working for myself are still better than my best days working for someone else. But that also leaves a lot of room for like, but it can still be like.
[16:36] That also doesn't mean it has to be my entire personality.
Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
I'm doing my best to create a business that is in alignment with my values that I...
Why I had originally left my job.
And I want to create a place for people to work that does that for them also.
You know what I mean?
But at the same time, it's not the only thing that I'm going to do for the next two years of my life.
Yeah. I mean, like I just think about that's such a long time and such a long time for me personally to feel like I'm putting like my other dreams on hold.
Yeah. And I just don't think that, maybe it's good advice for like, I don't know who it's good advice for, but it wasn't, it's not good advice for me, so.
Well, I mean, good for you for recognizing like, yeah, it's that, and I think for some people it might be like, okay, I'm better at hyper-focusing for like a couple of years at a time versus, you know, dividing and conquering.
But I think that like- I might be better, sure. But like, I don't, I don't want, I just, you know, I don't- It's just a no.
No, no. No, not for me, thanks. No, thank you.
Well, with that, like.
[17:58] The business is growing, right? So, like, despite your best efforts, no matter how hard I try.
[18:06] Which, of course, adds more to your plate, but also, like, I guess we can start with, like, what shape is Brave Daughters in right now? Like, you have a brick and mortar store in Providence.
Yes.
You have a pop-up store in Seaport.
Yes. And are building a permanent location there. Yeah.
And you're online. You do pop-ups. Online. Yep.
You do custom jewelry. Yep. Anything I'm missing? Private parties, private party, pretty much the same thing as a pop up, you know, same idea. We come to you.
Amazing. Yeah. So like in that, you know, if we're just talking like post COVID, when permanent jewelry really like became the clear channel and you kind of like made space to really focus on the business full-time. How have you figured out where to double down? Where to expand? Where to invest? And also alongside that, where to cut back and when to be like, you know what? That's not working. So we're going to have to change it and take the resource that I'm putting over here. Find the thing that's really functioning well. Does that make sense?
Yeah, yep, it does. I mean, I feel like it's honestly just trial and error and like following breadcrumbs and whatever's working is what we're leaning into.
[19:36] Whatever. For example, Whenever Jewelry and our online store are not a huge piece of our business.
And at some point, I think we'll focus on that and growing it. But it's going to take some.
[19:54] Energy from our team. And right now, I just don't see that as being well-spent.
So we're just focusing on the in-store experience and pop-ups and private parties.
[20:09] Same thing with custom jewelry. We do a couple custom pieces a month, but it's not something that we work on telling people about. Because we just don't have the resources to put there in terms of marketing it and moving it forward. So it just kind of... It lives.
Lives like same thing as as the one of our jewelry like it lives on the website people can reach out to us if they want to but it's not something that we're really putting energy into because it's until I think the store is open in seaport the permanent store I think we're going to be doing a lot of like operational like judging and that's really where like everybody's focus is going to be yeah making sure it like works smoothly yeah in the yeah Yeah, yeah, I want it's doing now, but yeah, but there's there's still, you know, little like, for example, we just migrated over the phone rings off the hook. And so Margaret, who is for the most part on her own in the Providence store, is like, answering the phone 20 times a day. And it's a huge drain on her, like, for energy, her energetic resources.
So we switched over to an AI answering service. And there is going to be a ton of troubleshooting and ironing out, making sure that it's clear for how people can get their questions answered.
[21:38] And, I mean, there's just going to be a ton of micro-judging on that to get it right.
But those kinds of things, you set them up and you don't just set it and forget it.
You have to like, you know, those kinds of little things. So like- Constantly like reevaluate. Yeah.
I think that's a really good example too of like a small, not small, cause that's huge.
Especially if you are getting calls and people probably wanting to like book appointments and do all that stuff.
And, but it's like, yeah, to just be aware of, okay, if we can save Margaret that time, like during the day and people can still get what they want without having to like interact directly with us.
Like then there's time freed up to, you know, develop the next, like...
[22:32] Line of charms that you want to do or get back to the private party inquiries or whatever, something that's more of a money-making activity. That takes a huge level of awareness of what's going on in everyone's day-to-day. I know now, especially with the two locations, you definitely have grown your staff too. So how many people are on staff right now?
Um, eight.
[23:00] So, I mean, how do you guys communicate those kind of like hiccups, like during, maybe not necessarily the day, but like, if someone's like, yo, I'm like not getting anything done because I'm answering the phone 30 times.
[23:14] How, how does that kind of like, now that you're not the one who's interacting with every single customer.
Yeah. Meeting everyone who walks in the door.
We have an all hands meeting on Wednesdays where we go over lots of stuff.
Like everybody just kind of brain dumps what they wanna talk about into a spreadsheet and then we meet and cover a bunch of stuff.
Also we use Slack, not really a lot, but there is some organizational structure to that about conversations for work stuff.
And then Notion has been like our lifesaver.
I'm obsessed with it.
Yeah. I love that. All of our SOPs, like our employee calendar and our sales workbooks and our team directory and all of our, everything lives in Notion.
And it's like on like a dashboard where everybody can access it.
So, and that's always gonna just be, you know, evolving.
[24:20] So when we get new people, you know, they can just refer to, we have a pretty, like, it's, it's getting comprehensive, like training manual for like, all of the processes, like for the permanent jewelry and then like retail operations and stuff like that. Yeah. That's awesome.
Especially again, like, cause you're probably not the person training every single person.
Yeah. Which is great. Yeah, it is. It sure is. Um, one of the things I do definitely want to talk more specifically about. And I think training kind of comes into this. But, so obviously, because of your business model, A, like you said, you're focusing on those in-person experiences, but also the product and the permanent jewelry. So for folks listening, permanent jewelry is claspless. So it's welded to your little body. It's not coming off. It's showering with you. It's going on vacation with you. You're wearing it every day. And I will say, I have my permanent bracelet that I've had for probably four years at this point.
Still looks amazing.
I think it's longer than that. It might be.
Yeah, you were like one of the first pop-ups that we did, I think.
I have like an OG diamond that I probably need to get come and get updated.
But that's neither here nor there.
[25:39] But so it's this, it is kind of like an intimate experience.
Like you're handing your wrist or your ankle or your neck over to the Brave Daughters team, and they are welding. It doesn't hurt. It's not scary. It doesn't take long. But that's such a... That's a really, I would say, an intimate interaction in a retail environment. So how do you think about that in terms of creating an experience where people feel like really confident and that they also aren't like.
I don't know that it's not like awkward or they just feel cared for and really good.
In terms of making sure that we're executing properly, we have a standard process of like, we do a four-point inspection. We let the customer know at each step sort of what we're doing.
[26:28] And then we work with them to get the sizing correct. We have our sizing recommendations that we recommend based on something that you're not going to take off.
Sure. But then we like to... Obviously, it's going to get put on your body. So it needs to be both. It needs to be comfortable for you, the wearer, but it also needs to be something that's going to last a really long time. So we have steps that we go through. And then other than that, everybody that works with us is super friendly and chatty and makes it a very... It's like a very like salon like experience, you know, it's not like this churn where we just like blow through people. We really like help you create something very unique and special because we have so many charms and like gems and birthstones that we offer now. So you're really able to create like a very unique piece. And for the most part, people are coming in for a special occasion or.
[27:27] Some kind of something with someone, you know, they're commemorating something special.
So they, you know, want to be creating something that's like unique for that purpose. Yeah.
[27:39] So, yeah, I think it's like making sure that we are communicating our understanding and knowledge of what we're doing and our sort of authority as experts with the service we're providing you, but also being really warm and friendly and chatty and fun.
[28:00] And then in terms of that we're trying also on the back end to create a seamless experience to with like, it's very easy to book. You get a little like gift, like care package on your way out with like FAQs and ways to reach out to us if you have questions about your jewelry and like a cute little bag and like the store itself is very fun and friendly.
There's a whole living room section for you to like hang out in. So it's very much a hang, out and not just like churning through people and like making the experience more a little bit more of like a destination than I think some of the other people that are doing permanent jewelry are able to do.
Yeah.
That definitely makes sense. And I think that, you know, your investment into like expanding the charms and the gemstones and like you said, making something where it's like it can feel really unique and special to that individual person obviously sets you aside. It obviously does great things for like your average order values, I imagine, and things that are like more business strategy. But I also think that what you were saying and like that kind of balance of like wanting people to.
[29:16] Understand that you all are experts and that they, you know, you're walking them through those few, like, checkpoints, but also balancing it with, like, it's fun. It's not like a cold, it's not like a cold high-end jewelry, you know, experience, you know?
I mean, I don't, I can't really think of a time I've walked in as an adult to, like, a really fine jewelry store, but, like, I imagine it's very, like, stuffy and...
Serious. Yeah. Serious. And so balancing like expertise with like the fun kind of like irreverent energy of the brand. Yeah. And like that is it sounds like a lot of it centers around like celebration. Yes. Yeah. It's definitely about I mean most yeah like pretty much everyone.
[30:03] I don't want to say everyone because some people are just coming in to get a cool piece of jewelry and like that's good for them. But a lot of people are coming in for a celebration whether it's with their partner or a graduation Mother's Day was like really busy for us. We did a special charm for Mother's Day that everybody like went like loved. So yeah, it's really about connection, and celebration and, you know, telling your own personal story. I love jewelry as a reminder. I I like looking at something that I bought for a special milestone in my life and I'm reminded of it every time I see it.
Yeah. And that's really what jewelry is about for me. It's not about.
[30:51] It's about something pretty and sparkly, but it's also really about reminding yourself of special moments.
Yeah, I love that so much. And I think that you guys manage that really well.
And again, I think that goes into building the experiences.
Like it should feel like celebratory and custom and friendly and like just that you want the staff to kind of like celebrate along with people which I think is really great and definitely, must take like unique hiring you know to like I mean it's hard enough I think to hire for retail because you really do have to like people and that's hard yeah but speaking from an ex you you know, retailer, but I mean, I think it's great too that you already have kind of like the grounding of like, okay, you know, to be friendly and to be nice.
And then you also like, we're giving you kind of things that you are meant to go over with them.
Like that's a good balance. So they can kind of like add their own spin, but yeah.
So what is like the role that you are playing in the business at this moment?
Well...
[32:02] Funny, you should ask because I quit, it's constantly been changing, so it sort of feels like the point that we're at now, where Seaport feels like it's pretty well staffed.
Providence needs a little attention right now at the moment, which we're working on.
My intention is to take a high-level growth role of navigating the whole ship from what are we doing next and how are we growing. And I'm going to keep my hand in the design aspect of the business because that's what I love doing and that's my background. I think that's what I'm good at. But once we finish... The Seaport build-out is a pretty big project.
So I'm working on that. And I'm also simultaneously trying to think about all of the big picture stuff. Are we going to start working with investors? Do we want to open a third location?
Where is it going to be? Going to cities and checking out different locations.
[33:11] And then I still do all of the... And the admin-y stuff. I pay all the bills, I do all projections and the spreadsheets and anything for applying for a loan. I do all of the money stuff, and I still do a lot of the HR stuff. I'm trying to pass that off. Hiring, firing.
[33:33] Terminating, or whatever you want to call it. Making sure that we have all the paperwork the right way and all of that stuff. I'm doing all of that.
Yeah.
Which I would like to get off my plate. Yeah. I'm pretty much doing anything. We have the operations covered of the store and design and sourcing gets executed. I still work on it. But Margaret works on it too. But she makes sure that, we're getting our correspondence in a timely manner from our manufacturers.
But all of the backend stuff for HR and admin and... We have a bookkeeper, but I still do all of the spreadsheets and all the boring stuff. I don't feel comfortable taking a backseat on that stuff because I feel like I need to know our finances all the time. I just don't want someone else telling me what our finances are. That feels weird.
I get that. I think that that sounds, I mean, it sounds like.
[34:41] I mean, definitely a leadership role. You're working on the areas of the business that keep it moving as opposed to being stuck inside it every day. When is the Seaport?
[34:54] When is that buildup going to be done? When can people come see you? When can I come see you?
October. October. We should be in there by October. There's not an exact date, But we're working on, I've been going out and like finding like, we're going to have a jewelry case, like a full jewelry case where we're going to have some other lines.
I went and found some new lines at the Mellie show in New York that we're going to carry.
And then I've also been sourcing like estate pieces.
We're going to have like a really cool like a state jewelry section of like handpicked, pieces. And then we're going to have like a bigger, a larger retail section.
Awesome.
[35:36] And then we're also going to have a back room where we can possibly do like, maybe at some point, this is a baby, it's going to be fitted out for piercing and tattoos.
So amazing. So we have to get, you know, the licensing and all of that stuff.
And you know, that might not be like a permanent thing that we're doing.
That might just be like a pop up thing that we do.
Sure.
It would also be a space for custom jewelry consultations and like tarot readings if we have a tarot reader come. Cool.
Oh my god. Yeah, it's gonna be. That's no small project. It's a big project.
Yeah, that's awesome. So it sounds like yeah, you clearly have your hands full.
There's a lot going on.
I love that though. I mean, I think that like you have to keep up the momentum, obviously, but I think going back to that question about like finding fulfillment and all those things, I think you do have to kind of show up as like your full self to be able to really, I don't know, make the right decisions and not ones because you're like, Oh, I don't know, this is what we should do or like, maybe what feels like easiest or most logical or like, I don't know, I just.
[36:49] I'm with you. I think you need to work on this stuff for yourself too.
Yeah. I feel like because a lot of people are doing permanent jewelry now, I oftentimes feel like this little nagging thing that's like, you got to grow faster because other people are coming for you. That's not my natural inclination to want to grow really fast. My natural inclination... I mean, we're growing as fast... We're being forced to grow kind of fast, but I want everything to be nice and feel good and be operationally like I don't like a messy system anywhere.
You're Virgo.
Yeah, I want everything to be like, you know, I want everybody to be like excited to come into work every day and do something creative because all of the operational stuff is like, ironed out. Yeah. So, I don't think that growing fast and that...
[37:41] Go together. They don't. So I, so I'm, you know, I try to remind myself of that when I feel like, you know, this like sort of pressure to like grow faster than we are.
Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. And like you said, I think it's like the sustainability to it. And also like, it sounds like you're finding focus within that too, which like allows you to not, I think if you are dedicating like, you know, 100% of your focus on the business, it's like, sometimes that means just like filling your time with things that like maybe don't totally make sense in a second. And then you lose that time for like, I don't know.
[38:21] Setting a new procedure and letting it work itself out for a couple of weeks and then be like, all right, how does that feel? Do we have any hiccups? Do we need to judge anything?
[38:32] You kind of need to have that time built in. Let it, I don't know, marinate a little bit, I guess.
Yeah, it has to this is like, you know, the system has to like work itself out. And like, you know, you're not going to see the areas where maybe it needs to be judged until.
[38:49] You've watched it in operation for a little while.
I'm curious, because our conversation like did naturally go to that place of like about, personal fulfillment, like, and I know, you sort of said, like, I don't know that I'm practicing that perfectly yet. But I mean, the fact that you have, it's going to sound so sad for me, but whatever. It's like the fact that you have like longer term personal goals that you want to start working on, I think is huge because I, I'm like not even totally sure what those would be for me.
How have you been able to find balance in that way and like connecting to where you want the business to go, but also making space for yourself as an individual to dream about what you want out of life. I feel like a lot of the things that I, the projects that I want to personally work on, are things that I've had in my head for 10 years at this point. So they're not things that I have have come up with while in the thick of building the business. It's just stuff that takes...
I want to build a house in upstate New York. That is a goal of mine.
Yeah. It's a huge project and it's not something that I'm making.
[40:17] Progress on every day. It's something that like, I have a burst of space and time to work on.
And so I'll like dig into it. And then like, I get busy with work again, and it kind of, you know, nothing happens. It's not it doesn't feel like balance. Really? Sure. Like, it feels like, um, I don't know what it feels like. But it's like this. That's like one of those projects that I'm like, I really want to keep working on this at the same time as building the business.
And I don't want to put it off until, you know, I'm honestly like 50. Like that feels like, no, thank you. Like, right. You know, I want to be out there when I'm 50. I don't want to be like still toiling away. I don't know why 50 is like the number for me, but like, it just feels like I just am not gonna wait until then. Yeah. It feels like, no.
[41:22] It feels like a hard pass. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's interesting too. Cause it's like, to me, like what, or what came up for me while you were saying that is just like, it kind of makes like the hard work, like what you're working for, you know, like, yes, of course you want the business to be healthy and you want it to support people and for it to uphold your values and that's all great. And I don't want to sound like I'm demeaning that because I think it's so important, obviously. But I do think that you also have to have a little personal skin in the game. You're working so hard to make the business successful, but, you also need your own metrics of what is going to feel good to you. And I've accomplished this this alongside, you know, when you're driving up to that house in upstate New York for like, I don't know, bringing the team for like a weekend retreat or something like that's going to feel like so rewarding in a way that like just having your business feel successful.
I don't think like...
[42:24] Not to say that that isn't a good thing, but like, why can't it be all? Why can't it be all the things? Do you know what I mean? Like, why do we have to choose? I don't want to. So I'm not, I'm not going to. Yeah. I feel like I think about that. I think about like bringing the team up there for like a retreat or something. And like, that is so exciting to me. Like, I would, you know, Yeah, I love that. I think that it's, I don't know, I think that that's a really good way to think about like personal goals and not them like fighting against your business, you know, like...
[43:01] Right, in tandem. I want them to like move in tandem. And I know that that's not going to be linear. But like, I don't want to, you know, table my personal goals for... Well, building the business. I just, I don't want to do that.
[43:19] Well, I think that like too, like maybe it's just because I'm, we're watching the final season of Succession. And like, I don't know, obviously I've been thinking a lot about like these like titans of industry, right? And even the idea of like, okay, like I'm really just going to commit to only working on my business or being so consumed by my business even for two or five years. And it's like, well, yeah, I don't want to do that and then like lift my head up and be like, oh, I have like no personal life. I have no hobbies. I have no friends. Like I have no relationship with myself. And I just think that that's a very, that's like not how business has been done. Like it's not how like titans of industry, not saying that like indie retailers necessarily aim for that, but like it is creating a new way of like sustainable success.
Yeah.
[44:13] Also like been doing this for like five years. Do you know what I mean?
So it's like like I already feel like you put the time in.
Like, yeah, like and I'm going to continue putting the time in.
But it's I have to like also like it sort of feels like, yeah.
And I also have to like start making time and priority for like my personal goals.
Also, like I'm not going to wait another two years as recommended.
[44:40] I'm not going to do that. Yeah, I think that that's like a big piece. Yeah, maybe it's like morbid to think about it like that too, but it's like I'm just not gonna like, I can't have a singular focus for a year. That's like a huge like, waste of my life.
So, Scott's so philosophical. I really am enjoying it.
It. Did it? I mean, honestly, I am not going to articulate this well, but I feel like most of the personal growth that I've experienced has been through my business. Constantly being asked to look at yourself and reflect on it. It feels like a very, I don't want to call it spiritual because that's not quite the right word, but it feels like confronting.
Yeah, like yes, like evolve or, or like fail or like, you know what I mean? Like it feels very much like it, most of the things that I'm coming up against on a daily basis feel like questions of like my own personal evolution in addition, in addition to my business, like it feels that way to me.
I agree. I mean, I think because it's like a direct reflection, you know, like I don't, I don't think that like you are your business or whatever, but like, I don't really like that terminology, but I do think that like it is a huge mirror for.
[46:03] Where you're at and like, what, if you're present and mindful during the process, then like, yeah, there's just no way to not to come out of it and not be like, whoa, this is like a pattern that keeps happening. Or this is how it's like showing up for me and like, the success of my business or, like, I don't know. I mean, I've learned more about like how I people please and how I manage my time and how like all of that through and that's probably why I talk about business and therapy.
Yeah. Well, and that's what... Me too. That's what I'm talking about. It is. It's like...
But I also feel like you're going to be confronted no matter what. And so if the thing that you're doing most of the time is your business, then that's probably where you're going to get confronted.
But also, I like to think of it more as like a... I try to think of it as a journey and an opportunity to grow instead of being like, why, that's not true.
I think of it both ways.
Like, why, why does this, why does shit keep happening to me?
Like why over and over, over and over, over and over.
[47:13] Yeah. I think that that, yeah. I mean, I think you're totally right in that it's, I think the stakes are different and that's what makes you like really have to look at it.
Like if you really want to run a business and hi, we live in America and this is capitalism, like that means we need to make money and we need to make sales and we need to make products that people like and we need to do like X, Y, and Z.
And so it's different than like, if you come up against like an issue, maybe in like your friendships or in your dating life or whatever, like of course, emotionally you want those things to change, but I just think in business, it threatens your safety, for lack of a better term, in a different way where you're just like, fuck, like I gotta make some money and I can't make any money if I don't stop doing this like self-sabotage bullshit.
I will also mention that my north node is in cancer in my third house.
Wow. So I very much need like safety, money, financial, like that's what makes me feel safe in order to go out and do things is like feeling like financially secure and like home, like secure in my home. Yeah.
[48:34] In my little shell. In your little shell up in upstate New York. Yes. I mean I'm a cancer so I deeply relate. I have a lot of signs and cancer and Capricorn which is really...
And they're opposite right? They're opposite on those. Yes they are. So they're like complementary.
Doesn't always feel right.
[48:55] I could talk to you forever but I don't want to take up too too much of your time And I want to end on kind of the three questions I've been asking everyone.
[49:04] First is what is something that's feeling really good these days?
I feel good is when I get when I do do my self-care, I have like some really nice like morning and nighttime like products that I'm using.
Oh, and I like the routine.
It's like I have like I got a bunch of Aesop just opened across the street from where the new store is going to go.
So I got really nice stuff from them that I absolutely love using.
And then I have like medical grade like face stuff, but just doing like washing my face at night and in the morning.
Nothing like it.
Yeah. I don't know. I'm just I'm finding like a lot of like.
Luxury and pleasure in doing that. So that feels really nice.
It feels like I'm taking care of myself when I do that.
The thing that I made a note of that I'm watching. Have you seen have you watched Beef yet?
Oh, my God. Yes. Oh, my gosh. I'm so. Did you finish it?
I binged it. Yeah, I binged it in one sitting like an animal.
[50:13] I just really like. So bizarre and amazing. I loved it. I loved it so much.
Amy, the main character, like her journey of entrepreneurship is like so relatable to me because it doesn't fulfill her whole life and make, you know, Like, she still has, like, a messy life that she needs to be, like, very intentional about.
Addressing and creating, you know, like, you know, like, I just really liked how they showed that because I feel like.
[50:46] It doesn't, you know, it's like, oh, you're so lucky to have a business. Yeah. And I feel like her desperation to get out of her business. Yeah. Like, very relatable. Like, not that I'm like, every day, like, get me out of here. But like, I yeah, I agree that she wasn't she didn't seem to to go through like grief around like moving on.
Yeah.
Which- Yeah, I just, I liked, I liked her whole, I loved every, I loved that show so much, it's so good.
It was really good. If you haven't watched it, go watch Beef.
It is a true, a truly unique experience is how I would say it.
Like I have not, I never seen anything quite like it.
No, it's so good.
Second question, what makes you feel successful? I feel successful.
Well, we talked a lot about this, but it's like moving my personal projects and business projects together in tandem and creating a well-rounded vision for my life and being able to execute on it all.
[51:51] There's one spinning plate that I need to work on more and that's my health and exercise.
But I think about it a lot, but I don't know, like feeling like I'm making time for all of the things that are really important to me.
And that feels like very successful. And then like freedom of how I use my time to work towards those things.
So I have a lot of freedom. You know, I work a lot and I'm always doing something, but I have freedom of how I do it, which I like love.
[52:31] I really relate to that. And lastly, if you could go back, what advice would you give yourself when you started Brave Daughters?
Nobody has like a magic answer for you or like nobody knows your business better than you do.
And so you have to take all of the advice um with a grain of salt and trust your gut and yourself more you know before you trust anybody else because you know your business. Nobody is going to be able to know your business like you do.
[53:06] So if you don't feel comfortable about something or a piece of advice that you've received, or you're not sure about it, like don't push forward with it, like let it marinate and let yourself like sit on it for a little while. Yeah, I think that's really good advice.
Get used to being uncomfortable. It's just like a baseline feeling.
Comfortable being uncomfortable. For your daily life. Yeah, I like that. I think that's, well, that's very true, like God, yeah, the discomfort is a resting state, I think.
Yeah, and it's not a cause for alarm.
Yes. You know, it doesn't mean something's wrong or something's off.
It's like, no, you're just, you have a lot of responsibility and a lot going on and it's uncomfortable and it's just like, that's okay.
This is what it feels like.
That's just what it feels like.
Interesting. So well put and I agree. I mean, I definitely think trusting your instincts, which it really sounds like you've done. And I mean, you're doing it.
[54:13] It's happening. Sometimes, you know, I mean, I don't always trust myself, but I'm trying, I'm getting, I'm definitely getting better.
Like if I get an answer that I don't like from someone that I've sought advice from, I'm like, all right, well, I'm gonna chew on that for a little while. I'm not gonna just take it.
I'm gonna take it with a grain of salt.
Yeah, exactly. Take what works and like apply it in a way that like feels good.
And I think that's staying in touch with that voice that's like, I don't know, is important.
I think that was beautifully put. Where can folks find you and Brave Daughters before we say goodbye?
Brave Daughters can be found at online at bravedaughterspvd.com.
We do all of our appointment booking there. We sell whenever jewelry and a small retail selection there.
And you can see some of our custom jewelry on our website and online on Instagram.
We're at bravedaughterspvd on Instagram and we have a brick and mortar on the West end of Providence, Rhode Island.
And we're in Boston Seaport.
That's amazing.
Erin, thanks so much for joining me. Thank you. Thanks for inviting me.
[55:33] Thanks for listening to Retail for the Rest of Us. Find additional information and resources related to this episode in the show notes or on our website, feelgoodretail.com.
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[56:03] Music.