Finding Your Focus With Jennie Lennick Of Jenny Lemons

Meet Jennie Lennick, founder of Jenny Lemons - a vibrant accessory and colorful lifestyle brand based in San Francisco. Jennie is proof that artists make great strategists and our conversation was a potent reminder that focus can radically transform your business.

Our chat covers:

• how her traditional art background led her to open a retail business
• what it looks like to accept help and delegate in order to get to the next stage of business
• reconnecting to your original vision and re-centering post-pandemic
• how Jennie’s word of the year - ‘focus’ - has helped her accelerate the shop’s growth. You won’t believe the results!

Jennie Lennick is the founder and creative force behind Jenny Lemons, a vibrant accessory and colorful lifestyle brand. Jennie founded her business in 2015 as an extension of her art practice, in which she created collections of clothing, accessories, and art kits featuring her playful illustrations of food. A couple of years later, she opened her first retail store in the Mission District of San Francisco. Her shop is a community space where she designs and sells her products and showcases them alongside a curated selection of other handmade goods, craft kits, and art supplies. Jennie is passionate about encouraging her community to create things by hand and live a colorful, creative life.

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Transcript

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Welcome to Retail for the Rest of Us, a podcast for indie retailers, makers, and shop owners who want to do business differently. I'm your host, Janine Malone, retail expert, small business cheerleader, and the founder of Feel Good Retail. On this show, you'll hear insights, strategies, and ideas on how to sustain and scale your shop without sacrificing your sanity. Each week you'll hear from me and the occasional guest expert in what I hope feels more like voice note from your retail BFF than a business podcast. Additional goodies and support can be found in our show notes and at feelgoodretail.com. Now, let's get into the show. Music. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Retail for the Rest of Us. I'm your host, Janine Malone, and today I'm talking to Jenny Lennick of Jenny Lemons in San Francisco. Jenny is such a dream. I love chatting with her. I love picking her brain because not only is she an unbelievable and creative force, she's an artist, classically trained, who has leveraged those skills into a growing both brick and mortar and e-commerce shop called Jenny Lemons. And I think that she's really the epitome of someone who proves that artists can be just as strategic, just as savvy, just as analytical as anyone else. So if you've ever thought, I don't know, I'm creative, I can't do the numbers stuff. Jenny is an amazing example to look to, to prove that that's not totally the case. I really, really loved this conversation. I'm recording this intro a few days after we chatted, and I'm still thinking about some of the things that she said. One of the things, as I mentioned in our previous episode, our return episode, is that I really want this podcast to feel like a glimpse inside of what it really takes to run a business and think about running a retail business in a different and new and refreshing way. I find that so much business talk and so many business podcasts are either made for or totally glamorizing the idea of entrepreneurship, Yeah? Kind of skip over all of the like messy parts, right? They're not totally transparent. They're talking to founders who definitely have PR teams. And I don't know, there's just like a realness and a rawness that seems to be missing. And so some of the conversations we're bringing to you this season, I hope give you that energy and allow you to not feel so alone. I know that even not being a retailer myself, I took so much from my conversation with Jenny in the idea that focus is radically transformative, that there is always evolution and evaluation happening in our business, and really just confirming that we all have to recenter post-pandemic. Our conversation goes from how Jenny's traditional art background led her to her shop, Jenny Lemons, what it looks like to accept help and delegate at different stages of her business in order to get to that. Next step. And how Jenny's word of the year, which was focus, has helped really accelerate her shop's growth. You will not believe the results. I was so grateful that Jenny really gave us a sneak peek inside what her business looks like these days in the numbers, because I think that it really goes to show, you know, I don't say focus. We don't say focus. We don't say manage your resources just for fun. Jenny is an amazing example of what can really happen when you put all of your energy into one area or just a few areas of your business. So I loved this conversation. I hope you found it helpful. Music. Jenny Lenick is the founder and creative force behind Jenny Lemons, a vibrant accessory and lifestyle brand. Jenny founded her business in 2015 as an extension of her art practice, in which she created collections of clothing, accessories and art kits featuring her playful illustrations of food. A couple of years later, she opened her first retail store in the Mission District of San Francisco. Her shop is a community space where she designs and sells her products and showcases them alongside a curated selection of other handmade goods, craft kits, and art supplies. Jenny is passionate about encouraging her community to create things by hand and live a colorful, creative life. Without further ado, here's my conversation with Jenny. Cheers to feeling good. Hi, Jenny. Thanks for coming to retail for the rest of us. Hi, Janine. I'm super excited to be here. I am so happy to just be catching up with you in general and very grateful that you're letting me record. Of course. So I guess we can just get started with like, tell me about the early days of Jenny Lemons. What did that look like? What inspired you to start? Do you remember like the moment that you were like, I'm gonna do this? I mean, like I think about that time a lot and it makes me. Feel so nostalgic and, you know, I was so innocent. Were we ever so young? I mean, it's been, I started Jenny Lemons unofficially in 2014. So it's almost been 10 years. I graduated from graduate school in 2012. And I spent like a couple years sort of like floating around. I studied painting in graduate school. But I was like, you know, I was working at art galleries as the receptionist girl. I worked at a preschool. I was showing my work a lot in galleries around San Francisco. I had a long-term artist residency for about three years, after school at this amazing nonprofit called Root Division in San Francisco. So I was showing a lot, especially through that organization, but I didn't sell anything ever. You know, like maybe a friend was like, I'll buy this photo for $50. And I'm like, thanks. Thank you. And I had a solo show. It was actually like in like a law office. It was kind of weird. They, one of the lawyers like loved art and like wanted to make his office into a gallery. So I had this show there where I, instead of making like paintings and drawings, I made like products. I took my illustrations and put them on clothing and jewelry and I hung them on the wall like art pieces. And there was a show where everything sold. Okay. And I was like, oh, maybe I should try making clothes. Maybe I should make clothes with my illustrations on it. And a friend of mine asked me if I wanted to do renegade craft fair with her. And I was like, what? Why would I do that? And yeah, so I joined, I did it with her and what I was doing was I was block printing and hand painting fabrics and then sewing them into clothes. So I did that show and I sold like four dresses and I was like thrilled. If I did a show and sold four dresses now I would cry very much. But that was just so encouraging. So then I was still working in the preschool and I was making the stuff by hand and sewing into the wee hours of the morning after work and on the weekends. And I was also teaching art classes to adults to help support my art practice and support the launch of my business. And yeah, in 2016, I took a business planning class class for about six months where I, you know, my job was really nice. They let me go down to part time so I could take my class and I learned a lot, wrote a business plan, learned about finance, all that stuff. And then in 2017, January 1, I like went out on my own. January 1, you're like, let's do this. I know. I was like, it's a new year. Yeah, it's a new year. So that year was like super pivotal. You know, I had a little art studio in San Francisco where I spent, you know, 40 hours a week, block printing, screen printing, and sewing clothing. In January, I went from zero wholesale clients to like six that year. Hey, and I was super excited to have my stuff for sale in Portland, Maine, and Seattle, and Minneapolis where I'm from. And that was super encouraging. The business was going well, but I was working so hard that I developed a repetitive stress injury from like sewing and... Oh my god! Where? Like in your wrist? On my hand. So my hand went completely numb and weak. And I had. Cubital tunnel syndrome, which is related to carpal tunnel. And I just was like, I have to make a change. So I started outsourcing a little bit. Cutting fabric, that's how I started. I still hand painted everything. And parts of the sewing process, I also started outsourcing to local factories. And then this... I mean, the beginning of my business, I feel like it's a riveting tale. So then... I love it. I love your script. So we're still in 2017, right? And we're in like the end of the year. And we're in San Francisco. And there's like this age old story in San Francisco and like every city where artists get kicked out, get evicted from spaces, because those spaces are to be used for tech companies or, you know, condos or whatever. So that happened to me, I was totally crushed. And I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. And at the time, I rode like a Vespa scooter. And I was like on my little scooter driving home. And I drove past this like bright little neighborhood and I saw a for rent. This is the same day I saw a for rent sign on a storefront. I was like, I'm calling this number. And that was five years ago. So we moved into the shop on 24th street in the Mission. We've been open for five years now. And there's been many ebbs and flows between that. But yeah. That is wild. I can't believe the same day. You were like, oh, here it is, like problem solved. Yeah, well, I mean, I called, I inquired, and then I worked with the original nonprofit that did my business planning class with. I've been working with them for many years now, and they helped me use the business plan that I made to get a loan from a local, another nonprofit that's working on developing the neighborhood that I was. Oh, amazing. And so yeah, I like, it's like, I didn't like call and get it that day. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Yeah. But that's, I did call that day. Yeah, at least just be it and be like, okay, there's hope here for this situation that maybe a few hours before felt like, okay, like January 1st, I started this thing. I like really put all my eggs in this basket. And now, you know, that's such a frustrating process. I think a lot of folks can really empathize with like, not being, I don't know, prioritized by landlords and developers and things. So, that was in 2017, what, like, I mean, how is 2011, it's a funny question, it's a funny way to even ask it because I'm like, wow, how has it evolved since then? So we opened the space, Soft Opening, in November of 2017. So January I quit the job, November I opened my shop. Our grand opening was in 2018. So from 2018 to 2020, we kind of just operated as you would expect. I continued hand printing my clothing and working with different factories. We were having our art classes in our shop. We were working on developing that program. The shop was really cool. Well, it is, we still have the same space, but we had the front of the store as a retail space. And then in the back, I made a little classroom where we could have like 10 to 12 people come and take art classes back there. So cool. But then, bum, bum, bum, 2020 hit. What happened then? Yeah, exactly. So we had been open for two years and things were going really well. Like we were starting to actually like sell out all of our workshops and like people in neighborhoods, It takes a while for people to know you're there, and that was going well. But so we had to obviously close like everybody else. I immediately pivoted online. We didn't really have a website. The only things on the website were like the clothes that I made. So we put like every single product we carried in the shop from like a bottle of nail polish to an air freshener and a card. Everything was on the website. And then I feel like I was one of the early people to do online classes. So our instructors collaborated with us to offer all of our classes online. And then we also started doing like corporate team building for like all the tech companies in San Francisco. So we would teach Google employees watercolor virtually or whatever. That like brought us to the pandemic that brought us through me giving birth to my daughter in 2021. And that, yeah, exactly. Like throw a firstborn in there too. Yeah, so I have my kid in 2021 And then. The last couple of years have been super hard. 2020, I feel bad saying this, but we did really well. We were super profitable. I was like, I can have this kid, we can support it, we're going to be amazing. I pivoted so much and made so many changes that it was really hard to change back. The last couple of years have been a really big learning curve for me. Changing my focus, which we'll talk about. And like, figuring out what's working for me now after trying so many different things. Yeah, I think that that really resonates and it's been something that I'm surprised maybe I, I mean, I've kind of been like offline so maybe it is being talked about and I think in more like one to one conversations but like, I think that that experience is pretty common for indie retailers, especially who had been open prior to 2020 is that like, community really rallied around them during the initial lockdown. And actually, 2022 and 2023 have been extremely difficult. It almost feels like you thought you got through the woods and then it's like, I don't know, someone pulled the rug out under you. Mixing metaphors. But I'm glad that you said that because I think that it's very disorienting. Even from my own experience, it feels very like, Oh, this was not expected this to go. So at this point, you are making and selling your own products, you have the brick and mortar shop and e commerce, you wholesale. You are still doing core, any kind of corporate retreats or workshops for the community or not as much. I'm not not really like I am not actively seeking them anymore. I mean, if you come to me, me and you're like, I have like a group of 100 like, let's do this. Yeah, I'm not actively seeking them. Yeah. Cool. So I mean, at this moment in time where you are kind of Like... Reevaluating and trying to find your focus, which I do want to dive a lot more into. I'm curious how you think about your role in the business as the founder and also the creative director and the namesake. I'm trying to think. I mean, it's so funny. When I was just home in Minnesota, hanging out with my family for a couple of weeks and they're like, you don't work in the shop anymore? Well, what do you do? I'm like, what do you mean? What do I do? Do every other thing? It's not just me being a cashier, that doesn't make any sense. So I try to think of myself less like a cashier, less like the janitor at the shop, and more of like a CEO. In the last year, my husband came on to work full-time with me on my business. My job is to guide the business and he really backs me up on that too. I'm guiding the creative direction. Everything has to kind of come through me for approval before it gets executed by the people on my team. Has that been a hard role for you to step into or are you comfortable in that creative direction space? Yes and no. Yes and no. I just have to, I sometimes when I'm at work, I feel like, I mean, I'm a pretty, I feel like I'm a humble person. So when I feel like I'm literally constantly talking about myself and my ideas and stuff at work, and I'm like, so what do you guys think? Like, what are you all working on? And I'm like, why? Like, why are I asking? I mean, like, I'm nice to them, obviously, but I don't need to tell me right, like having that kind of like divide between like, Okay, I'm like wearing my CEO, creative director hat versus just like, I'm just having a conversation. Exactly. Your brains like you're talking an awful lot about yourself. I know it's really hard. It's really hard. So I'm like, Hey, everyone, check out this stuff. Check out this deck of this. Like, what do you all think about these designs? Like, I can't wait for this to launch. And then I'm like, Oh, what are you? What are you guys Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's, you know, good manners, good Midwestern. I guess, is Minneapolis Midwestern? Do you guys? It is. I don't know. I mean, yes, yes. But also, when I hear about other Midwestern places, I'm like, that's not the Midwest. I feel like Minneapolis like the North. Oh, yeah. North country. North country. Love it. Um, so I I mean, I think that's really interesting too, because how big is your team right now? So you and your husband, which, I mean. I don't even know if we'll touch on that, but bravo for working with your spouse, your significant other. I don't know that I could. Love you, Dean, if you're listening. Yeah. I mean, we work pretty separately, which is nice. I mean, we work together, but he's in, charge of shipping and fulfillment, which I can talk about. We're actually moving to a fulfillment center in the next couple of weeks. Oh, amazing. Yeah. So he will be more of the COO in charge of business operations, inventory management, like that kind of stuff. Incredible. So it's me and him. And then I have my wonderful, administrative assistant, Zoe. Shout out to Zoe. She's great. And I have three shop associates. And then we have our like peripheral team of contractors and agencies and whatever that we also work with. Yeah, it's really helpful to hear because I think that sometimes too, like. There are a lot of helping hands behind the scenes for businesses, especially who have been around for almost 10 years. And it's like, hard to kind of wrap your head around like, okay, like, when does that help come in? Who? What kind of roles do you hire for? So it sounds like you sort of cleared the path so that you could really be focused on the creative direction and be like, visionary behind the business. Yeah, and part of that for me is like when I'm working, especially if I'm, I don't really work. I only work in my shop as like the last resort. They don't like when I work at the shop because I don't know how to do anything. I don't even know how to count the cash register anymore properly because like Shopify always has some update and I always miss that update or whatever. But yeah, I owe every day I think when I'm working like, is this where my time is best spent. You know, I'm like, you know, opening a box and doing like quality check on this product. I'm like, is this where my time is best spent? I think that I could give this employee that is doesn't have a task right now. She could do that. And I could go like, draw a new hair accessory design. Exactly. Or have a meeting with, you know, a collaborator or something like that. Totally. I think that's really a helpful reframe of just like, it's not necessarily at least, and I'll speak from the eye when I've gotten support in my business, it always feels like sometimes when I'm delegating tasks that I want off my plate, because they're not my zone of genius, I also feel like bad. I'm like, oh, it's so annoying that you have to like do this spreadsheet right now, but it would be really helpful to me. And I feel like I'm apologizing. But if you're hiring right and training right, like the folks who are supporting you, like actually love doing that kind of work and like, feel really good to be like, I trust you to do the quality check here, and I trust you to do the inventory and remembering that too. Yeah, for sure. I mean, like, for right now, we're like facing with success, you also start having things like counterfeit issues and copyright infringement, all that fun stuff. So like, we have to start like sending out like letters to people who are copying our designs. And this makes me feel so sad. Like I can't do it. But, but my admin, she's like, I feel like she's like an amateur detective. And she's like, all she like loves it. I'm like, all right, like, That's amazing. And I need to stop apologizing. I'm like, here are the crappy taxes you have to file. She likes it. I don't know if she likes it, but it's her job and it's almost like I'm putting her down when I said it's bad. Right. And also, yeah, I think that, I mean, at least for me, even when I was in more of a like, I was an assistant or working for someone else, I always just felt really good about being trusted with tasks like that. So anyways, I find myself definitely doing that. That's something I'm trying to work on. So through all those evolutions, something I've been thinking about a lot is just like this constant state of evaluation that we have to have inside of our businesses, especially for long-term survival and success. And I think sometimes folks folks feel like one day they're just going to figure it out and it's just going to work. And that might be the case for a little while for sure. But I think if you, I don't know, rest on your laurels, you may be missing opportunities. So how do you figure out what's working at Jenny Lemons? How do you evaluate the way that you're running the business or what you're spending your time on? I mean, at this point, and it does take at least one to two years to figure this out, but I look at my numbers. Yeah, so like, for instance, I made the decision in the last few months to stop offering really workshops at all, like we might have like an in store event occasionally, but I'm not doing any more workshops because I made more money in like March or in February selling stickers than selling workshops. Wow. So, I mean, a sticker is $4 or $2 wholesale. So... That must have been really eye opening. You're like, hmm, okay. Yeah. Yeah. I make more money selling stickers and I'm like, okay, how much? And then so I look at those numbers and I'm like, okay, so. When I sell a sticker, the effort is I draw one drawing and I press a button and then the stickers arrive to me in one week and then they're on my website already and they're done. The amount of work for a new sticker design is maybe an hour or less. But teaching a workshop, that's a week's worth of work. That's like 40 hours. And it's like, okay, so. I might make more money selling stickers than I do selling art supplies or something. But I look at the number and I look at the effort associated with that number that I make. And then also how I feel too. You have to always check in with yourself. So a product like an online workshop, I work hard on it. The instructor works hard on it. Maybe one person who signed up for the class is excited about it, and then we cancel it. And it's like, there's a lot of hurt feelings here. That's tricky. Yeah. So yeah, I look at my numbers. I look at the worst sellers and drop them. And I also look at the best sellers and make more of those. So like, we recently went viral on TikTok for this. I know, right? It's crazy for this corn hair claw that I designed. It's like shaped like a corn cob. And I was like, okay, so like, what other corn stuff can we get? Yeah. You know, we got corn candles, got corn sticker, we're getting some mini corn claws, like all the different, you know, so that that like looking at numbers helps me decide what to do next. Yeah. Yeah. I think that that's so important and like, I'm curious like in addition to that because I think that obviously analytics I'm like a freak about. How do I want to ask this? When you're making a decision to, let's say, kill your darlings, sometimes you might really love doing something or making something and you love it, but it's not getting the response maybe that makes financial sense or business sense, if you will. How do you deal with those situations? Have you come across that? Does that sound familiar to you? And if so, how do you put your business hat on? Yeah, I mean, workshops really are like I lit we just did a shop redesign from like January to March. And like I hired sign painters that like painted on the front of my shop, like workshops, check them out, like all this stuff. And I was like, like, that was really that was so hard. But I just, it's just it's the same thing as like, when I'm in my shop. And I'm like, where's where's my energy best spent? Know, like, I've tried for literally years to make these workshops work, they did work, I can't compete with like, online. Platforms, for specifically for workshops, like, you know, Skillshare, any of these like major ones, I just can't compete. So I'm like, it's just I feel better making things that are better received than things that aren't being received. Yeah, well, and I think something that like, and maybe I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I feel like when I put a lot of effort into something and it like does okay, but not great, and then later, I want to stop doing it. It's like, I feel like that's where like this kind of like resentment or like bitterness like can kind of come in and it feels so much better to just do things that like, I mean, a you designed your bestsellers as well. So it's really exciting to see people respond and really get what you're doing. And in the same way, it can be a little bit demoralizing when you're like, oh my God, I'm working so hard to make this work. it just feels like you're forcing. Yeah. And I don't feel super like I would I still love the idea of people coming together and like making arts and crafts like I love that idea but I'm like how can I still do that without doing that you know like how can I like okay so like one of our best sellers is a fake cake craft kit like that if I put my energy into continuing to push things like that that might reach us so much further all over the world people can buy the fake cake kits they can buy multiples they don't have have to be like tied to a screen or a location. Like it is still, I am still me no matter what I am making. So it's okay to cut things when they're not working. I just don't wanna like ever encourage anyone to cut something immediately. Like you have to try, like you don't just do like one thing, launch one product and no one likes it. Like you have to keep trying. Like when I was getting started, I did craft fairs literally every single weekend. Like for a year or two, like between like 2015 to 2017 when I opened my shop, it was like every little like parking lot, whatever craft fair I did it, because that was how I like built my business. You have to try. So try for a while to cut things out. Yeah, and I really liked the way that you reframed that of like, okay, yes, this is part of the ethos brand, obviously. You want people to come together and make things and have more of a colorful and creative life. But there are so many different ways to do that and not being so obsessed with it looking like a workshop. Like you said, maybe it is like a craft kit where it's so much more accessible, and it feels really good to you to make. And then there's just a further reach. That accomplishes what you set out to accomplish. It's just like maybe a different shape than it was in 2020. Right. And that's another thing that I think about a lot, especially with like, you know. Creating services versus products is like I went to art school to make art, you know, like to think, and you know to create objects. So it's like that was kind of the original goal when I was 18. So. You know and then teaching was always sort of like the ends and the means and like even in art school they're like you should teach to help support your art and I'm like okay maybe I don't, I don't have to do that anymore, so. That's, yeah, that's really fascinating. So in that same vein, I think that, and for those of you listening, Jenny and I know each other, we've worked together, and we're friendly, of course, clearly. So I have a little insider baseball of just knowing that how Jenny works, and really one of the things I most admire about you is your ability to simultaneously do what we just talked about, like cut things that aren't working and re-imagine the shape of your business. But also, you're so open to exploring new ideas and being experimental. So how do you know when it's time to maybe try a little something new or maybe look at your numbers and be really, you know, put on that critical hat. It's nice because I have a shop for me. And I'm a designer. So it's like, for instance, we I mentioned air fresheners, for whatever reason, people love buying air fresheners right now we're selling tons of air fresheners. They're like cute, like with like a little design on them. And like, and like seeing that information from my customers. I'm like, if I made my own air fresheners, they probably would do okay. Yeah! You know? And yeah, so it's like deciding when to do a new thing. That's like what I'm doing kind of right now. And also like, again, like looking at like, like 51% of my sales this quarter have been from accessories. So I'm like, okay, like what other, like I started creating hair accessories about a year ago and that has really taken off. But I'm like, what other accessories can I make that are along the same lines that can, you know, serve my customers more, you know? Yeah. Yeah, and then it's also like a matter of like, again, how it makes me feel and like how is it, if my goal for my business is to like, you know, encourage my community to live a colorful and creative life, like how inclusive can I be with that? So like, you know, I started off Jenny Lemons as really an apparel business. Yeah. And that was really challenging for me because it was not inclusive. It's not an inclusive business apparel, unless you have a ton of money and you can afford to have extended sizes and lots of variety and whatever. And I just, I couldn't do that because I literally was one person sewing a shirt. Seriously. So it's like leaning, like being like, okay, if accessories are making up 51% of my sales or whatever, that makes me feel great because that is so much more accessible to people of all body types. And if you've got hair, you can wear a hair claw and if you want to. So people aren't turned away because of their body or their space or location or whatever. That's really cool. I also, when you were saying that too, just the observations of being in the shop or like you said, looking at your numbers, the fact that you're like, okay, I've looked, it's 51%. And that kind of like, I'm not a trained artist, so maybe you feel differently, But I always feel like when you have a very specific container to play around in, when you're like, our mission is colorful, creative life. I want to make more accessories. That is a really specific but also expansive playground for you to get to apply your point of view to. Does it feel that way to you? Does it feel like homework sometimes? I love home. You know this about me, Janine. I love homework. I do, I love it. She does. I do. And I love like, yeah, I like like specifications. Like, okay, like I need to make a hair cloth, but my new theme is bread. Like what kind of bread themed hair cloths can I make? Like that's a sneak peek into the next question. I need a bread hair cloth, first of all. Yeah, I think it does feel like a playground for me, but it also has taken a lot of time because I... Only my my new year's resolution for 2023. I like chose a word and it's focus and, I'm putting like the focus on Myself my products and my brand having the shop, Has been wonderful in a lot of ways, but it also I've let too many people in you know I let in all of our artists, which I do love working with our artists, but I It went from like being Jenny Lemon's my store to like Jenny Lemon's the general store of the neighborhood. I was doing like featured artists in our window gallery every month where they'd come and do installations and I'd like pay them to do the installations and we'd sell their artwork and I'd help launch a product for them and we would do like an art class with them, all this stuff and it was like very exciting but I also was like, but I'm an artist and like, I wanna do the window. And I always felt like I couldn't do the window cause it was like, this is not the space for me. This is a space for our artists. And I was like, and then I like sort of like looking around and I was like, wait, like that store, they're like, just they have one brand or like this brand. Like I think of all my friends that I was carrying, I'm like, they're just their own brand. Like they don't have me. Yeah, right. That is so interesting. And I think that like, again, it comes back to like, you are so community-minded and I think that's really like supporting artists is really important to you. But to your point, it's like, okay, is there another shape that this can take? Am I feeling like it's not, you know, supporting exactly like what you're really trying to build? And when you think back to those like early, early, early days in like 2015 at those craft fairs, you're like, yeah, of course, it was all about you, it was all about what your creative vision, the objects that you really felt inspired to make. And I think that that's really such an interesting point to from like, you know, again, as a creative director, but also just thinking about like, how limited resources are if you're not someone who has like, deep pockets or has backing or, you know, is really running an independent shop. Because not only is it like your time and your effort, like you were saying, but to. Be spending so much on development of product for other brands or spending so much on wholesale, it does limit what you were probably able to do with your own line, right? Yeah. Oh, one, I mean, I didn't do anything. Since my new focus, New Year's resolution, like our wholesale business has grown over 1000%. Like that's insane. I'm sorry. I'm not kidding. What? Five? Not even five months. In the last five months, we've made like Thank you for your time. Bye. Five times what we made last year on wholesale. It's crazy. It's like, and it's because I was like, I know I'm shocked. I'm very excited about it's very great. We went from like 20 or less. No, like five, probably like five to 15 active shops in in 2022 to like over 250 this year. So, but it's like, the thing is, it's like, it's cause I, by focusing on like one thing, whether you are a designer with a shop or not, like it makes your story so much easier to tell. And it's like, it points you in the direction of like, it points your customers in the direction of like what you want them to do. So when I was like, hey, I'm Jenny, I have a shop on in the mission and we do all these classes and I have this featured artist program and we have chocolate in our store you could buy and we also have nail polish. And you can hire me to do a class for your company if you want. And sometimes I make clothes, but not right now cause I'm too busy doing it. Like who's gonna buy it from me? It's really dead. And people are like, okay, cool. Well, I just work in marketing. And you're like, okay. No, that's so true. Like I think it can be really scary to focus. So I really admire that being your focus for the year. Because I do think it's like really, focusing on one thing means saying no to like everything else, right? Like it's, you have to think about all the things. And oftentimes our brains are like, here are all the things you're not doing if you're focusing on this. But I think it's also proof that when you throw your whole back into something and really stand behind it and have exactly an outcome you're looking for, and you probably are waking up in the morning and you know exactly what you have to do as opposed to feeling pulled in so many directions. Do you feel like just from a personal standpoint, You've. I don't know, I don't want to say more sane because maybe you feel sane all the time. But like, do you feel like a little bit more grounded? Has that been helpful to you? Well, yeah, I feel like I'm not running on a hamster wheel anymore. Right. You know, like, I'm like, I used to be like, all right, on Mondays and Tuesdays, I write my blog, for my website. And I'd be like, all right, I wrote my blog. What is this blog actually doing? Like no one is coming to my people come and they read my blog, I would do like, Just for context, I would do a weekly craft tutorial on our blog. And people would come to that and then they would leave. And I was just like, why am I doing that? What is the purpose behind that? Where now I'm like, okay, I have specific tasks related to the products that I'm creating. And I do them on the same days every week. And it makes me feel very normal. Yeah. And that's crazy. Yeah. Right. And I'm sure it's freed you up. Well, I'm sure it's freed you up to to make these decisions like, okay, we're going to get a fulfillment center like that is a huge undertaking. I've done that with a few brands before, or I've been there while that was happening. I wasn't really involved. And it's a lot. It's a huge change. But it's also a great opportunity for growth. And I think if your attention was pulled, I mean, maybe your husband would be like, I got this. No, I think also having him on the team has been really helpful because it's like thinking about your business as, yes, I'm serving my community, I'm serving the artists that we work with and the neighborhood and whatever, but it's also like it's my family's entire income. I mean, we have a daughter and we live in San Francisco and it's very expensive. So it's like, we have to like, it's really like, it is so important to focus and make it work. Yeah, so there's no I like I feel a little bit like playtime is over. But in the by saying like playtime is over. I mean, it is but it's also like playtime is over. I'm just going to spend the rest of my morning drawing pictures of croissants. I mean, exactly when sometimes it's like that's the thing. It's like, that's so funny. I feel like this has been coming up a lot in conversations I've been having is just like, yeah, it is time to like get serious, like double down on your business. But when your business is something that you love so much that's like, yeah, I'm drawing croissants. Like, this is taking my business seriously and I'm still able to like feel really good and excited. And like, I'm not, like you said, I think hamster wheel is the perfect visual. I mean, I feel like I can sleep at night better. And like my, I have energy to like do things for like self-care. And whereas before I would just like, how are we gonna get more people in the doors the workshops? I have all these artists that I have to answer to. How am I supposed to help them? Oh, yeah. The relief. Yeah. Seriously. Truly. So one other thing, which is kind of a sidebar from where we've been, but I'm so curious to hear your answer is like, since you launched your business, and Jenny Lemons is so much about like your vision and your creative practice, like, do you see that as your personal creative practice? Do you maintain a, you know, your own kind of like time to do that work? Like, what does that look like for you now? It is tricky because I have, I have a hard time with making stuff because I always want to monetize everything. Um, yeah, yeah. The most relatable. Yeah, I'm always like, oh, I'm drawing this. Oh, this could become a really cute sticker. And I'm like, I need to stop. At least realistically, yours could become a really cute sticker. I feel like I do. Like I'm taking a stained glass. I've been like practicing stained glass and taking some classes. And I'm like, oh, I'm going to start selling these and I'm like, first of all, you're not even good. Second of all, you have other things to like, it's just anyways, yeah, but capitalism has really got worms in my brain but I mean so I don't know I mean like I use. Art and like crafts to help or let me relax. Like I try at the end of the evenings, I generally am working on like a cross stitch or an embroidery project. And I'll often I just buy like a kit because they're cute and it just keeps my hands busy. I also love to sew and I like have started picking that up again, making my own clothes. Because that's like I, you know, I like, I don't know, I love the idea of like working on things that take a super, super long time, like a cross-stitch project or like a dress, like an intricate dress that's embroidered or a quilt or something like that and it not being for anybody, like I can't, I'm not going to sell this one quilt. Yeah. You know? I love that. I think it's a good way to like, yeah, bar it off from being monetized. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, just to make it like, like, so my creative practice has, I mean, I still like, I draw weekly. I recently learned how to do procreate drawing and that is like sped things up for me like crazy. And I work on that stuff. But yeah, personally, I try to like, make it make things that I could not sell. Yes, exactly. I like the long process that feels like really satisfying to like, things move very fast when you're running your own business. So I think it's nice to have that that kind of like grounding just for you time. Yeah. Well, I think that's it for my main questions, but I have kind of like a little questionnaire I wanna do with everyone. Sure, yeah. That's cool. So what's something that's feeling really good to you these days? It could be like a self-care practice or like something you're reading or watching or a proud moment. Well, in the beginning of the year, I started doing Julia Cameron's artist way. So I would recommend it to like any creative, if you're trying to like focus. And it's nothing, you don't have to be a writer. It's like, but so I've been keeping up my morning pages, which is like a big part of that. And the artist dates, I've been doing that as much as I can. You know, I've finished, it's a 12-week program and I finished it like a month ago and have not done morning pages every day, but they are like, it is the practice of journaling and like self-reflection is like super important to me. And also like getting into the habit of, like having self-care moments. There's a quote in Julia Cameron's book where she says, treat yourself like a precious object. And I think about that often. Yeah. Yeah. Like within your life and within your business, like when you're toiling away doing tasks that don't do anything for anyone. Like, is this how I would treat a precious object? Probably not. Probably not. What is, sidebar, what's an artist state you've been on? Because I feel like I struggle with, like I want to, I do morning pages and I've tried to do the artist way, but I'm just like, I'm like, what do I do? I'm too much of a perfectionist. I mean, I've done a lot of, I had big ones and little ones. Yesterday I got a facial, which was amazing. Another big, I mean, big ones for me since I have a kid, like involved me like leaving. So, I went to an art gallery by myself. I went to the, well, not an art, I went to the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art by myself for a show I really wanted to see. And that was like, I like cried on the way home because I loved it. Like I loved it so much. That is amazing. You know, and little things like I like learning how to draw on Procreate. Like I brought my iPad to a coffee shop I liked and I watched a Skillshare video. Like that could be that, it could be just drawing. I like to use my morning pages to plan out my artist dates too. That's like- Ooh, hot tip. Or you can use a whole morning page session to write 25 art estate ideas. Okay, loving this. Thank you for the homework. That is because I yeah, I'm just like, I don't know, like, what do I? I don't know. I'm really in a place. This is a total sidebar, but really in a place of evaluating, like the role of creativity in my life as I get older, and like, I'm more of like, I consider myself more of like a business person. I'm like, okay, if I don't, if I'm not really in a super creative career, how do I evolve that relationship? Which is why I'm asking you some of these questions, but also it's a good reminder that maybe I should just do. Yeah, when I did the Artist's Way, I did it with like a group on Zoom and we met every week and like talked about the chapters, which was awesome. I love that. And it was nice because we also connected like with what everyone did for the artist dates. So some people would like just go to a park with a blanket and their dog by themselves. That was the thing, you're by yourself. Right. Oh, another thing I did recently is I went to like a pre-fixed dinner by myself. And that was definitely, truly so inspiring. I would be crying on the way home from all that. Yeah. Well, that kind of leads me into like, what is making you feel successful? What makes you feel like you're a success? I guess, like, I mean, numbers. I mean, I do love, like for transparency, I took Janine's, what was it? I took two of your courses. I took community camp and I did the, FeelGood Foundations. FeelGood Foundations. Yeah, I did both. And I think working on your numbers and your goals is so important. And I have a whiteboard in my office, I'm looking at it right now, that has my sales goals for each sales channel, POS, online, and fair wholesale. And I look at it every day, and I feel like it helps manifest it. But in terms of other success, I think I feel, whenever I see any of my designs, like in the wild, I always feel like this little bit of pride. Of course, that would be thrilling. Like someone wearing it or like at a shop or. Both, both, both. I would love it. Yeah, I love it. And like when I went home to Minneapolis and we went and visited a bunch of our, a couple, few, not a bunch, three of our retailers. And just like seeing it in the shop talking to the shop, the shop owner, it makes you kind of feel like you're a celebrity in a way. Totally. Oh my gosh, that's thrilling. Yeah. And lastly, if you could go back and give advice to yourself when you started your shop, what advice would you give? I mean, I feel like my instinct is to be like, don't tell anyone else's stuff and just make your own stuff. But I think I wouldn't say that to my I wouldn't be I wouldn't be that person Because I would just be like, me, back then, I'd be like, screw you, don't tell me what to do. Yeah. I just think I would... I would, I would. I would just encourage myself that I'm doing great. I love that. Yeah, just keep trying. I guess I would have encouraged myself to get my stuff online sooner and to delegate faster. I guess those are the other things. Let go. I mean, because I really, I wept when I was thinking, who would love Jenny Lemons if I don't hand block print and sew all these things? But my hands are so numb, I can't pick up a pen. I'm like, how am I supposed to do dudes, they'll all hate me. And I think I work with like these artists in my shop that like, they're like hand forming each and every one of these ceramic dishes. And I'm like, girl, and she's like, they're like crying, they're up all night. I'm like, why are you doing like your customers will like your dishes more if you can, if you make them cheaper, cause you're outsourcing them and you're creating jobs for other people. And like, you can have that energy to, instead of just like forming your things out of clay to like make a new design, you know? Yeah, oh my gosh, I really, I feel that one. What do you think that is? Like, why do we tell ourselves that like that would change things? I don't know, I wonder if it's like art school, like this, like this, maybe for me, maybe this, like the artist's hand must touch each thing in some way to make it precious, but I'm like, I don't, I mean, I look at like big companies that have success and they're not. There's like the starving artist, which I hate that, but like, you know, I don't know. I think that we don't value makers in our society as much as we should. And I don't know. I don't know what it is. I think, yeah, I think a lot of it is racism too. Like, you know, it's like, it's not me, the like wonderful artist touching these things that I'm working with, the factory with, you know, that in China or in Mexico or something like that is not as valuable. Yeah, I think that's very real. Yeah. Wow. That's a whole other conversation. Literally. Yeah. No, but I think that I just, that really resonates. And I think that like, that's a huge hurdle for a delegation for a lot of folks is like, Oh, it must be made in the USA. Must be. I'm like, really? What's wrong with other places? I went on my honeymoon to Vietnam, and I visited some factories in Vietnam, and they were absolutely— some of the factories I visited were beautiful. Light-filled, people dyeing indigo by hand. This one, it was amazing. They employed victims who suffered from side effects from Agent orange. So a lot of them were mute and deaf. And they had this beautiful space that I like the most beautiful art studio I've ever been in. And they're making these clothes. And then I like factories in the United States. No, exactly. It's so that's so interesting. And so true. And I think that like we paint with a pretty broad brush. And yeah, again, you know, like anything, it's like, of course, you still want to be involved, but it is still your vision. And it's just more your business and Jenny Lemons can only grow by like including more people in the process and like helping bring that vision to life because it does it puts a lot of pressure on you, your body, your mental health, your resources to just hold on to it. And I think that you're right. I think there's a lot of like... Thank you. Ego and some not nice feelings that we think are because we highly, highly value just our own work, but it's self-sabotage at the end of the day. Definitely. And I think a lot about, I know you and I are both fans of Rachel Rogers. Yes, huge fans. And she talks about reach and making a difference in your communities. And I think by like, outsourcing your products, like hiring people to help you, it frees you up to actually make differences in your communities and being like, all right, I'm going to hand make all these shirts and 10% of my sales are going to go to Planned Parenthood. And you're like, okay, I mean, I was I'm so excited. I was able to make $45 for Planned Parenthood. And you're like, right. But but if I actually, like actually made real money on this, and like was able to support myself and create jobs, then maybe I could like donate $10,000 to Planned Parenthood or $100,000 to Planned Parenthood, like something that would actually make a difference. You're so right. Focus, focus on. Yeah, exactly. I just love this theme of evaluation and finding your focus and really figuring out what's important to you and committing to that as as opposed to like, you know, getting distracted or telling yourself that there's only one way to be like a quote unquote, like good small business owner. Right. Because yeah, you gotta, I don't know. Just gotta try some different things as you've expressed. So I really appreciate your time and sharing so openly about what's really going on behind the scenes and the process and the decisions that you've made, I know it's. You know, one of my goals here is definitely to have conversations that feel, more radically transparent and not just like the how I built this, like, well, I had an idea. And then 10 years later, I sold for $100 million. You're like, Oh, yeah, I think the glamorization of entrepreneurship is like my number one enemy this year. So I appreciate you going on this journey with me and doing what you do and being so thoughtful. Oh, thank you. And I just want to be helpful. So yeah, you are. This is helpful. It definitely is. So thank you so much, Jenny. I hope to talk to you soon and, hope that you find continued success with your hardcore focus. Thank you. Appreciate all you do. And I'm glad you're back. Thanks for listening to Retail for the Rest of Us. Find additional information and resources related to this episode in the show notes or on our website, feelgoodretail.com. This show was lovingly produced and edited by Softer Sounds, a feminist podcast studio. If you enjoyed this episode, please take a minute to text it to your business bestie, share it on social media and leave us a rating or review. It really helps the show grow organically and we love making new friends. Thank you for being here. Thank you for being in business and cheers to feeling good. Music.